Belgium - Italy

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Belgium - Italy

Post by Wim Gielis » Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:19 pm

Interesting game next Friday evening (my time) in the European championships soccer: Belgium - Italy
And the Netherlands were kicked out of the tournament :lol:
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:27 pm

Wim Gielis wrote:
Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:19 pm
Interesting game next Friday evening (my time) in the European championships soccer: Belgium - Italy
And the Netherlands were kicked out of the tournament :lol:
I'll send you a sympathy card after the match. Forza Azzurri!
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Wim Gielis » Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:44 am

You might have seen the recipe that Portugal used: break the ankles of the best players of the opponents. The biased referee let them get away with it with only a yellow card 🤮

FYI Alan: Belgium isn’t just Austria 🇧🇪 🇧🇪 🇧🇪
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:32 am

Wim Gielis wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:44 am
FYI Alan: Belgium isn’t just Austria 🇧🇪 🇧🇪 🇧🇪
Turchia 3-0
Svizzera 3-0
Galles 1-0 ... e solo POI Austria 2-1.

After the debacle of the previous World Cup we're on a mission, and it is MOLTO PERICOLOSO to stand in our way.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Elessar » Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:20 am

I'll just post here an old Russian football joke :(
If you cheer for your national football team, then you are either a fool or a German
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:15 am

Elessar wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 6:20 am
I'll just post here an old Russian football joke :(
If you cheer for your national football team, then you are either a fool or a German
I'm sure that Vlad will have a {cough} "motivational chat" with Artem Dzyuba and the boys when they get back.

Should we fail, on the other hand, not that we will, we'll all just head over to a classic pizzeria in Trastevere (one which doesn't have menus in English ideally) and spend the night singing Toto Cutugno's song L'Italiano.

(Or I would do if I wasn't half a planet away, in a 2 week lockdown, and forbidden to leave the country.)
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by PavoGa » Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:26 pm

My favorite old joke about what we call soccer was:

Joe: "What is 'soccer'?"

Franz: "It's a game where 22 men run around for an hour kicking a white ball and then Germany wins."
Ty
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Wim Gielis » Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:55 pm

Exit France - I won’t complain :D
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:03 am

PavoGa wrote:
Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:26 pm
My favorite old joke about what we call soccer was:
Joe: "What is 'soccer'?"
Franz: "It's a game where 22 men run around for an hour kicking a white ball and then Germany wins."
I think the clue is in the name Franz.

I don't know what the obsession you guys have with Germania is, but consulting the record books is a worthwhile exercise. The most number of world cups won by a country is actually Brasile, with 5. Germania has 4, which is equal with us. Argentina, Francia e Uruguay all have 2.

In the Campionato europeo di calcio UEFA (UEFA European Championship to you lot) Germania is equal with la Spagna at 3 titles each, followed by France with 2 and hopefully l'Italia to join that number shortly.

In short the Germans usually field a side that's good, but hardly invincible.

Belgio was runner up. Once. :twisted:

Speaking of which, and I'm sure that this is unconnected with the UEFA Championship... well, pretty sure... somewhat sure, maybe... I'm a subscriber to The Economist. What popped up on my app feed last night? A notification about an article in the weekly edition titled "Belgitude: the art of Belgian zen".
The Economist wrote:Stuff happens in Belgium. From the outside, it is a grey country famous for fries, Magritte, chocolate and as the home of the EU—a project whose entire ethos is making European history one of dull process rather than bloody war. From the inside, it is chaos...
The article doesn't bag out Belgium but rather it, ... ah... it, ummm... I really have no idea of how to describe the article. It's an interesting read, though.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Mark RMBC » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm

Franz: "It's a game where 22 men run around for an hour kicking a white ball and then Germany wins."
We are really hoping to buck that trend tonight!

Roll on Italy or Belgium in the final!

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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by jim wood » Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:37 pm

Mark RMBC wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm
Franz: "It's a game where 22 men run around for an hour kicking a white ball and then Germany wins."
We are really hoping to buck that trend tonight!

Roll on Italy or Belgium in the final!
I think that depends on which Germany turns up. If the one that played Portugal arrives at Wembley we're done. If not then we have a good chance.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Tue Jun 29, 2021 6:15 pm

jim wood wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:37 pm
Mark RMBC wrote:
Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm
Franz: "It's a game where 22 men run around for an hour kicking a white ball and then Germany wins."
We are really hoping to buck that trend tonight!

Roll on Italy or Belgium in the final!
I think that depends on which Germany turns up. If the one that played Portugal arrives at Wembley we're done. If not then we have a good chance.
I guess you have the answer to THAT one now...
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by jim wood » Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:05 am

Indeed we do. To be fair I don't think we were that good, but neither were Germany and they fluffed their chances, we didn't.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:57 am

jim wood wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:05 am
Indeed we do. To be fair I don't think we were that good, but neither were Germany and they fluffed their chances, we didn't.
You should have a good shot against Ukraine. The match is probably yours to lose. Don't screw up and you should make it through.

Despite my confidence, intellectually I know that counting chickens with gli Azzurri is not a productive pastime. When we have a good day we can beat any team in the world.

But we don't always have a good day.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by jim wood » Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:41 pm

Italy in the group games played with freedom and looked very good. Against Austria they reverted to type, trying not too lose. If they do that again I think they will go out. The game has moved on a lot over the past few years, high press etc has made sitting back and defending more difficult. It's why Italian teams haven't done much in Europe recently and why the national team has struggled. Mancini recognizes that but when the pressure is on players fall back to what they know.

As for England, I'm glad we're not playing Sweden as they always seem to have our number, but make no mistake, Ukraine has players that can turn a game on it's head, so it's no given by any shape.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:51 am

jim wood wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:41 pm
Italy in the group games played with freedom and looked very good. Against Austria they reverted to type, trying not too lose.
Unfortunately il calcio italiano has had a bias toward the defensive for some time now, as you're doubtless aware. And meanwhile, my home team has just recruited... José Mourinho, so I can feel where that's going. (Though he denies that he's a defensive manager.) Still, he's made some decent purchases, and he would have to be an improvement over Fonseca whose most notable skill seemed to be hacking off his club captains and then sending them to metaphorical Coventry (like Dzeko) or worse, literal Paris Saint-Germain (like Florenzi) where he would need to learn... French. That's just sadistic. Ah French, the language of love, the language which has a dozen different spellings for the same pronunciation of a dozen different conjugations of a single verb. I would say that I regard French as being the worst designed thing I've ever seen, but I've also seen Planning Analytics Workspace so la langue française is on safe ground there.

I think we'll see a lot of churn for i giallorossi next year, including the departure of Fazio. Which is a damn shame if one is a regular viewer of the series Il Commissario Montalbano. If not, the in joke will be lost on you, although in the same vein I'm hoping that we find an up and coming striker named Catarella.

One bigger structural problem which I suspect is going to bite the game in the backside long term is the money aspect. If I had my 'druthers I'd prefer to see 11 Romans on the field against 11 milanesi or torinesi, or fiorentini. Instead you get multimillionaire players from anywhere whose only real loyalty is to their next paycheque, wherever it comes from. The guy who used to run the trattoria down the road from me immigrated from Italia in the 60s, back when the game was more like that; local guys on the field with a real feeling for their home territories. He told me that he doesn't really follow it any longer because the players no longer represent their regions but rather {gesture of taking cash and pocketing it}. He follows, or should I say followed, Lazio since he's from one of the regional villages. Lazio and Roma have a weird relationship with the latter being the capital of the former; we're the only teams in Serie A to be in that position, although the relationship between teams in the same city (like Torino and Juventus) can get similarly muddled. Upon reflection, that may be a bad example since I'm not sure that The Money-Making Machine Known As Juventus is identified with Torino in that way. The two Milano teams may be a more apt example.
jim wood wrote:
Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:41 pm
As for England, I'm glad we're not playing Sweden as they always seem to have our number, but make no mistake, Ukraine has players that can turn a game on it's head, so it's no given by any shape.
I don't think anything is... except that fact that the above-mentioned Germania jokes will need to be packed up until the next World Cup at least. (The World Cup which is to be held in that most suitable location, selected purely on merit, Qatar... where no more than 25 to 30% of the players will die of heatstroke which is why gli Azzurri probably won't be selecting any player who hails from north of Napoli. What was I saying about the money issue a few moments ago, hmm, I don't recall...)
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by jim wood » Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:21 am

I've been waiting for money to make the game go boom for a while. Keep in mind that the premier league has most out there. Yet the leagues seem to keep on going and doing well. The appetite for the premier league over here grows every year. It's watched by a lot of people now. It has the advantage of being on TV when no other American sport is being played. Add that money to what they are already generating and it's a never ending supply of cash. What struggles is the leagues outside of the top flight. The gulf in cash is massive yet the 2nd tier in England is the 5th richest league in Europe.

As for what ruined the Italian league, it's money related, but really it was their really bad TV deal. It meant that there was no reason to go to away games and a lot less people went to home. Taking away fans, taking atmosphere, taking away investment in the club. I think it will recover, but it will take a while. Also keep in mind that clubs have to submit accounts now. In the past the likes of Barcelona were able to simply right off debt. They can't do that now. Their debt is now huge and starting to cause them problems. Teams in Italy can no longer get cash investments in brown envelopes, which has also not helped them.

As for the other bits, French not going there. That's a path to ruin :) also for German jokes, it took us forever to beat Germany, making jokes after one win, would be very cocky indeed.
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:57 am

jim wood wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:21 am
I've been waiting for money to make the game go boom for a while. Keep in mind that the premier league has most out there. Yet the leagues seem to keep on going and doing well. The appetite for the premier league over here grows every year. It's watched by a lot of people now. It has the advantage of being on TV when no other American sport is being played. Add that money to what they are already generating and it's a never ending supply of cash. What struggles is the leagues outside of the top flight. The gulf in cash is massive yet the 2nd tier in England is the 5th richest league in Europe.
There have been SOME grumbles, though it's far from a Spring Revolution. Yet, anyway, though the revolt over the Stupid League proposal was pretty loud and effective. Aside from that, I'm thinking particularly of what happened with the Man United pitch invasion back in May. I can't profess to any deep knowledge of the EPL; in reality my interest relates purely to my home town, from there to AS Roma, from there to Serie A, from there to gli Azzurri, and from there to anything related to them. (Which is pretty much how Italian society works anyway; family -> town -> region -> country. It's probably not an ideal situation, but it's what it is.) I don't really follow calcio outside of that, including in Australia. (The only team for my area is in some third rate hick competition that nobody cares about in any case.) However those ructions were pretty well covered by our local media, with the fan complaints apparently being that the owners have been dividend stripping while loading the club up with debt.

I can't say that I'm enthused about the entire concept of private ownership of clubs. It's like a poison that has run through the entire sport. One club gets a sugar daddy, the sugar daddy bids up player prices to try to buy the competition, then the other clubs have to do the same thing, then you get people who see the clubs as nothing more than an investment vehicle (see above)... fast forward a couple of decades and we find ourselves where we are. Then the money feeds on itself generating idiotic ideas like the aforementioned Super League which thankfully fell apart.

I'm not overly impressed that AS Roma is currently owned by some Toyota dealer from Bupkis Nebraska, even less that I saw that he was trying to acquire the remaining public shareholding at some absurd bargain basement price. The previous owner James Pallotta is also an American, but at least he has some Italian heritage (albeit via Puglia and Calabria rather than Roma). When I wandered into the AS Roma store in the Via del Corso the last time I was there, there was a sign on the wall saying in large letters "Roma Siamo Noi". I just stood there half smiling and nodding my head for a moment, with a certain little indescribable feeling running through me. I'm not convinced that the Toyota dealer could even read the damn thing, much less understand and feel the vibe of it.
jim wood wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:21 am
As for what ruined the Italian league, it's money related, but really it was their really bad TV deal. It meant that there was no reason to go to away games and a lot less people went to home.
Eeeeh... it may depend on the team. In the year before The Bug we were averaging just shy of 40K, while Olimpico's THEORETICAL capacity is 70K. However Olimpico is pretty old and the good seats sell out pretty quickly. It's also not in the greatest position public transport wise. Last time I was back home I was looking at going to a match there but Metro Linea B was closed for work on the new metro lines, and I didn't want to be dragging three non-Italian speakers across the city with an endless series of transport changes. (We had an apartment down near the Colosseum, so a station of Linea B was just down the street. It wouldn't get us all the way there but would have gotten us close enough with a quick change at Termini.) It is indeed a pity that the proposed new stadium in Tor di Valle was scuppered. Teams with a more modern stadium with decent transport options like Juventus also don't seem to do badly. But you do indeed have a point generally.

On the other hand the most likely way that I can see tomorrow's match live is to jump the VPN to the RAI website. Though I probably won't out of fear of jinxing it.
jim wood wrote:
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:21 am
As for the other bits, French not going there. That's a path to ruin :)
Too late; any French people who watched my Motorsport Manager series on YouTube already hate my guts anyway, especially after the "I Spied" episode. Secret admission... maybe not so secret now... I did actually enjoy my time in Parigi, albeit perhaps more as a fond memory than at the time. Even the bit where I tried to use my limited French to order some of the World's! Most! Expensive! Milkshakes! from a cafe on the Champs-Élysées while we were waiting for our show to start, and the waiter slapped his hands to his head and muttered imprecations like "Mon Dieu!" "Sacre Bleu!" etc in the clichéd way that one expects French (well, more specifically Parisian) waiters to do when confronted by (what appears to them at least) to be a "personne anglaise" trying to speak their language, before demanding that I speak Eeengleesh, non?

I still wouldn't want to trade places with Florenzi who has to spend a lot more than 2 days there.

Also I still don't regret that fact that I damn near kissed the ground when the TGV pulled into Torino Porta Susa 2 days later and I was again somewhere where I could actually speak to people in real conversations which use more than about 50 words and pre-memorised phrases. (I don't think that Florenzi will get by with "je voudrais un pain au chocolat". Yes, the pastry is very nice, but probably not great for the waistline on a daily basis.)
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Alan Kirk » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:02 pm

"la Repubblica" wrote: L'ITALIA BATTE 2-1 IL BELGIO E VOLA IN SEMIFINALE A SFIDARE LA SPAGNA A WEMBLEY!!!!
Sorry, Wim. Maybe next time...
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Re: Belgium - Italy

Post by Wim Gielis » Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:38 pm

Well played by Italy, highest chances of becoming champions. The last 20 minutes were a disgrace though. So much commedia dell’arte… and this team does not need that. We were close a couple of times but interesting game and tough opponents.
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