GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post Reply
User avatar
John Hobson
Site Admin
Posts: 329
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 4:58 pm
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 9.5.1
Excel Version: 2007
Location: Lytham UK
Contact:

GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by John Hobson » Mon May 18, 2009 2:55 pm

http://translate.google.com/translate?j ... ry_state0=

This is a link to a translation of a French article on using graphic cards to power muti-dimensional software. Jedox (Palo) are leading the pack here.
John Hobson
The Planning Factory

TM1 10.2.0 / Win7 / XL 2010

David Usherwood
Site Admin
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:09 am

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by David Usherwood » Wed May 20, 2009 4:05 pm


User avatar
mattgoff
MVP
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:37 pm
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 10.2.2.6
Excel Version: 2016
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by mattgoff » Thu May 21, 2009 9:38 am

Kristian Raue mentioned this in his talk at the Palo seminar in London yesterday. Very interesting stuff. Makes sense as rules (and anything else non-procedural) should be very parallelizable.

The problem I see for us moving off TM1 to Palo is that we have a pretty big investment in TM1. Not so much in the backend/model but in user training and reports. Even if we could save in maintenance fees, we'd have to retrain hundreds of users and rewrite hundreds of reports. It's a big hurdle.

An intriguing idea that came up as a question from the audience was to use sync a Palo server up with TM1 to allow the use of the Palo Web server as a reporting server instead of TM1 Web.

Matt
Please read and follow the Request for Assistance Guidelines. It helps us answer your question and saves everyone a lot of time.

User avatar
Alan Kirk
Site Admin
Posts: 5797
Joined: Sun May 11, 2008 2:30 am
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 9.5.2 64 bit moving to 10.2.2
Excel Version: 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by Alan Kirk » Thu May 21, 2009 10:24 am

This is an interesting development but I can't see it being one that TM1 will follow. It's great for people who are doing stand-alone desktop analysis a-la a local server running Perspectives. (That's IF the user has control over their hardware configuration, OR can convince the IT department that they need a bitchin' NVidia graphics card for something other than the rumoured PC release of HALO 3,and their SOE desktops have enough in their power supply to power the things.)

However in the collaborative OLAP market, where everyone is pulling data from huge honking great servers in the company data centre, there are a couple of problems. (a) Most HP / Dell / whoever servers have only the most rudimentary graphics card (because in most cases, that's all a server needs); and (b) while they, unlike their gutless corporate SOE desktop cousins, might have the power supply needed to run an nVidia, they generally won't be able to fit the card in (particularly with slim-line rack-style servers) and even if they did there would be issues with cooling the things. GPUs are generally worse heat demons than any other single component inside the box, and often need a fan the size of the propeller from a C-47 to prevent them from sending the data centre into its very own China syndrome.

So great for stand alone... not so sure about the server market.
"To them, equipment failure is terrifying. To me, it’s 'Tuesday.' "
-----------
Before posting, please check the documentation, the FAQ, the Search function and FOR THE LOVE OF GLUB the Request Guidelines.

Paul Segal
Community Contributor
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 8:11 am
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 10.2.2
Excel Version: 2010

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by Paul Segal » Thu May 21, 2009 10:27 am

Yeah, that was me. It's going to be interesting to see the V3.0 Palo Web Server when it's available. A lot of it looks based on OnVision as far as I can see, which isn't too much of a surprise given the whole TM1-->Alea-->Palo inheritance. It's always a bad idea to get too effusive based on vendor presentations, but it's certainly something I'd like to explore further.

Paul
Paul

Paul Segal
Community Contributor
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 8:11 am
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 10.2.2
Excel Version: 2010

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by Paul Segal » Thu May 21, 2009 11:04 am

Alan Kirk wrote: However in the collaborative OLAP market, where everyone is pulling data from huge honking great servers in the company data centre, there are a couple of problems. (a) Most HP / Dell / whoever servers have only the most rudimentary graphics card (because in most cases, that's all a server needs); and (b) while they, unlike their gutless corporate SOE desktop cousins, might have the power supply needed to run an nVidia, they generally won't be able to fit the card in (particularly with slim-line rack-style servers) and even if they did there would be issues with cooling the things. GPUs are generally worse heat demons than any other single component inside the box, and often need a fan the size of the propeller from a C-47 to prevent them from sending the data centre into its very own China syndrome.

So great for stand alone... not so sure about the server market.
But the OLAP market isn't the only market that's interested. So, adding something like the NVidia Tesla S870 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/495) to an existing server might very well work. Not sure how it gets round the heat problem, mind.
Paul

David Usherwood
Site Admin
Posts: 1321
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:09 am

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by David Usherwood » Thu May 21, 2009 3:29 pm

mattgoff wrote:Kristian Raue mentioned this in his talk at the Palo seminar in London yesterday. Very interesting stuff. Makes sense as rules (and anything else non-procedural) should be very parallelizable.

<snip>
Matt
So....
Why then does TM1 _calculation_ not multi thread?

User avatar
mattgoff
MVP
Posts: 510
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:37 pm
OLAP Product: TM1
Version: 10.2.2.6
Excel Version: 2016
Location: Florida, USA
Contact:

Re: GPU - Palo at the forefront

Post by mattgoff » Wed May 27, 2009 4:44 pm

Alan Kirk wrote:This is an interesting development but I can't see it being one that TM1 will follow. It's great for people who are doing stand-alone desktop analysis a-la a local server running Perspectives. (That's IF the user has control over their hardware configuration, OR can convince the IT department that they need a bitchin' NVidia graphics card for something other than the rumoured PC release of HALO 3,and their SOE desktops have enough in their power supply to power the things.)

However in the collaborative OLAP market, where everyone is pulling data from huge honking great servers in the company data centre, there are a couple of problems. (a) Most HP / Dell / whoever servers have only the most rudimentary graphics card (because in most cases, that's all a server needs); and (b) while they, unlike their gutless corporate SOE desktop cousins, might have the power supply needed to run an nVidia, they generally won't be able to fit the card in (particularly with slim-line rack-style servers) and even if they did there would be issues with cooling the things. GPUs are generally worse heat demons than any other single component inside the box, and often need a fan the size of the propeller from a C-47 to prevent them from sending the data centre into its very own China syndrome.

So great for stand alone... not so sure about the server market.
Sounds like your organization has a bit of the tail wagging the dog. I've worked at those before-- some IT depts forget that their job is to ENABLE everyone else. If they can standardize to make things faster and/or cheaper, great, but it shouldn't come at the expense of their users.

In our case, our standard servers in the data center (T-6 days till the move, so I'm officially refusing to spell it "centre" any more, this UK spellchecker be damned) are HP DL385s, so we have plenty of space for add-in cards. If we needed it, bigger chassis are an option from IT. Still, even 1U boxes typically have space for a PCIe card or two to handle things like dedicated SSL hardware, fibrechannel, RAID. Blades are another story....
David Usherwood wrote:So....
Why then does TM1 _calculation_ not multi thread?
Preaching to the choir, my friend. All we've managed to get so far is launch multi-threading (except conditional feeders) and spreading multiple users across the cores (assuming there are no writes going on). IBM/Cognos really need to get on the ball with true multi-threading if they want to move the product forward and not get passed up by the likes of Jedox.

Matt
Please read and follow the Request for Assistance Guidelines. It helps us answer your question and saves everyone a lot of time.

Post Reply